|As mentioned earlier Han Marie's
spiritual "career" started with the Parzival prophesy. That took place
in 1972. Now, in 2012 his 12 years of writing comes to a close. He brought a stage of life
to an end, in which he considered the "written word" an essential element to his
teaching. He payed a price for that though. Many years in which necessarily the mind - as
mediator - was heavily involved. Hence, he needs a time for "kicking the habit".
It is like Jesus going into the desert. In the future there will be only the Cosmic
Mother. His life will be spent between surrender and sharing. Through surrender he is
taking refuge in the Bottomlessness of the Mother, the "Vessel of Abundance",
sharing the received Grace with all and everybody. Just before his (temporary) retirement,
I managed to make an appointment for an interview with him. On the phone I told him that I
would take a tough stand. Emphasis would lay on how he thinks he will come to the open in
the near future. He laughed saying: "at least with you the Truth may come out".
From HanMariepedia, the spiritual encyclopedia
Q. Han Marie, are you Parzival?
A. Oh, is this your warning shot? You see,
people are fascinated identifying someone else, whether through a label, an image, a name
or a judgement. It gives them the feeling of having power over others.
Q. Are you afraid to be pinned down
A. To the contrary. Because deep down I am
neither this nor that. So, nobody will ever be able to label me or put me into some
Q. Is this your way of defense?
A. When your Essence is (Absolute)
Nothingness, why and how to resist anything? Deep down there isn't any fear.
Q. Looking at you, you are not just
A. You are an excellent observer
(laughing). But clearly, that is the case, existence consists of Emptiness, containing all
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Q. Not just one?
A. Having realized Eternal Space all forms
are at your disposal. You play the Divine Play, something that is called
Q. So, you are the Divine Playboy.
A. I am the Player and the played. One of
my toys is "Parzival", others could be LaoTze, Maitreya Buddha, Jesus, Mary
Magdalene, Meister Eckhart, Teresa of Avila.....the list is limitless, nobody and nothing
- Interview with the Guardian of the Grail
Q. That sounds
A. The criteria is, whether you are serious
about it or not. If so, then you are identified. Because you have NOT reached absolute
freedom towards the content of "your" Space. In that case, you better go back to
zero or quit the scene altogether.
A. Does it hurt?
Q. I wished it would!
A. (Laughing) Good joke, indeed!
Q. The times in which we live aren't that
A. We urgently need new teachers.
Q. In order to make yourself known, you have
to take on a form, otherwise people won't recognize you.
A. To descend from Formlessness to form is an act of
humility. That's why calling yourself "Parzival" has nothing to do with
"showing off". Without great compassion for the current suffering, I would
stay in my Paradise.
Q. Like the story of Maitreya.
A. Right. The texts (Chinese Pao-Chüan) are very
outspoken. Maitreya lives in the Tushita Heaven and is very reluctant to descend to earth.
Q. Just like you spending more than 33 years
more or less hidden, before coming to the open.
A. Not quite, I published my experiences in the
internet. It was a process of step by step reducing my fear for the world (relict of my
childhood). In the mean time I sabotaged my future mission wherever I could. Eventually,
my commitment towards the "Cosmos" - just like in Maitreya's case - didn't leave
me any choice.
Q. A teacher in spite of himself?
A. Beautifully said (winking at me).
Q. What makes the coming of a New Teacher a
A. It is because of the ego. In "former
days", it still was more or less contained. With some big exceptions, as we all know.
Its negative effects were either felt privately or within certain (cultural, social)
A. Today, on the other hand, it has itself blown up
to monstrous proportions, promoting itself in a very aggressive way. Even the survival of
(wo)mankind is at stake.
Q. Could you become more specific?
A. Especially with the introduction of the
"virtual world", pushed forward by the STC
(Science-Technology-Capitalism)-complex, the whole situation has changed dramatically. It
is a collective addiction, indeed, one that is worse than heroin.....
Q. Spurred by greed, profit, growth and
A. Right. Because of that we are losing contact with
reality - "Heaven, earth and the community" - the ego thus having free scope to
pursue its self-centered and therefore destructive goals.
Q. Some current teachers do speak about the
ego. So, why insisting on a breakthrough?
A. I know these attempts are sincere. The enormity
of the problem is greatly underestimated, though. It is tackled by the tools of yesterday.
It is like you want to stop a tsunami with a few sandsacks only.
Q. They do see the global impact, though.
A. Unfortunately, it will not lead to A New Earth.
The problem is, that these teachers focus on solutions, instead of deeply going into the
problem. If you get stuck halfway in investigating a problem, your "solutions"
will be accordingly. In fact, you only create new problems.
Q. That's what we see in the world of today,
A. So, they think that the current Ego-Catastrophy
can be "solved" by just "being aware".
Q. That's true, it is quite common that some
of them during their teachings show haughty smiles, proof of their supposed "superior
insight" (letting us feel what dummies we are).....
A. Change of topic, please!
Q. Isn't being aware the alpha and omega?
A. With regard to individual problems it mostly
"works". As "solution" to the collective addiction of the entire
culture, it doesn't.
Q. What would happen, when you really go to
the depth of the problem?
A. To reduce the ego-problem to just "being
identified" is simply too superficial. "You are identified with forms - unfree -
therefore, click the button of your inner light - and behold, you are liberated".
Practice proves, that it doesn't work like that.
Q. I can confirm, that through my own
practice of mindfulness, my inner insecurities have only grown...
A. Beyond awareness, there is underlying existential
Angst. You may look at it, but that doesn't mean it disappears. The reason? Existential
Angst is based on fear of Nothingness. It is the engine behind "identification".
Identification is ego's major tool to overcome fear of death.
Q. It serves basic security.
A. To the ego, yes. So, it is irresponsible to take
this security away from people, who haven't firmly decided to go on the spiritual Path!
Q. Something that some teachers forget?
A. Spiritual teachers "sell" liberation,
it rarely occurs to them that some (a lot of) people need the opposite: security.
Q. They say: old securities are based on the
ego, the ego is part of impermanence, therefore become aware.
A. Obviouisly, this is right, theoretically at
least.....In practice, very few people manage to be mindful all the time. The danger is
that in the end, there is neither sufficient ego-security left, nor a new acquired one,
derived from your True Self.
Q. The spiritual Path seems to be trickier
than it seems.
A. To find yourself between two chairs (spiritually)
is a horror scenario. Not only for yourself but also to the Whole. For potentially
valuable contributions to the greater Whole get lost. Again, the responsibility of
teachers is undeniable.
Q. Could you give some examples of this?
A. It is a common problem of all current teachings.
All teachers got stuck in their realization of the Light. Some experienced modest
openings, others experienced Full Enlightenment. It doesn't change my point. The thing is:
you cannot share more than you have received yourself.
Q. But please, didn't the Buddha
himself considered Full Enlightenment the Ultimate Stage?
A. Sorry to say, no. Because one thing he considered
beyond Enlightenment. He called it "Nirvana". The problem is, he never
"experienced" it himself, just hoping that through his physical death he would
Q. I heard one teacher say: "Freedom is
called Nirvana, Liberation, Enlightenment".
A. Clearly a case of word magic. This teacher
doesn't know where he is talking about. By doing so, he is mixing up things, thus
preventing liberation, rather than bringing it about.
Q. Can you become more clear? Because that
same teacher says "these are different words for the same Consciousness", so
what is the point?
A. Impressing people with words, hiding ignorance.
The Reality is, that "liberation" is equal to "becoming aware", a
first major step on the spiritual Path. It is based on self-effort (insight, meditation).
Full Enlightenment is the crown of "Realization", you become one with the
Cosmos. It is (mostly) based on Grace. "Suddenly, and without any effort on my part,
I Am the Eternal Light"
Q. Same thing, but different qualities.
A. Right, and therefore identical, while
not-identical (....) with each other.
Q. What about Nirvana?
A. Because the Buddha failed to give proper
instructions, "Nirvana" has been always object of speculation. The definition
which is closest to the Truth is "Emptiness beyond Emptiness".
Q. Could you explain?
A. Awareness is "your" inner observer. It
may one day become extended. Several smaller or bigger openings ("Satori") may
happen to you. Eventually it may dissolve into Full Enlightenment. This is called "Relative
Emptiness". For almost all people (teachers) it is the end station. Very few
"experience" Enlightenment dissolving into "Absolute
Emptiness" or "Nothingness", though. The latter corresponding with what
physics calls "Cosmic Vacuum".
Q. Now I grasp it. If you mix these
Dimensions up, then the liberating Power, unique to each of them, get lost.
A. Brilliant. That is exactly how it is. It proves
the limit of such teachings. Because, as I said above, the ego-problem is essentially a
problem of Nothingness (and thus not of awareness).
Q. Is all this talk not a little too
exclusive? The majority of people won't even manage to be mindful, for instance.
A. It again depends on the right insight. The
reality is that spiritual life moves between two poles: from total dissolution into the
Whole on the one hand, to yes, identification with the ego, on the other (and everything
Q. Identification with the ego is
"natural", even for those on the spiritual path?
A. That's right. No teacher will tell you that. To
them, one "should be mindful 24 hours a day", so, people get pre-occupied with
it. Very soon they get the feeling of being a failure....which is again food for teachers!
Q. Just accepting as the answer?
A. Yes, what is wrong with (temporarily) being
identified with the ego, as long as you know it? I call it "letting the dog
out" (laughing). It brings you down to earth, humble in a way. Only then the stress
of (spiritual) ambition can be dropped. You just enjoy life as it is, nothing excluding.
Q. Why is this so important?
A. The point is, that once spirituality
becomes an ambition, the benefits are immediately lost. Instead, one should say yes to all
situations. Only then you will know joy, wisdom, inspiration and power. So, I don't have
any problem with the ego, I enjoy it!
Q. Whaw! What is True Liberation?
A. As long as there is existential Angst, there will
be no freedom, aware or not aware....
Q. Thus, not the ego, but existential fear
is the core problem!
A. They are synonymus. Ego is Angst.
A. Because it is an entity, that has lost contact
with its context: "Heaven, earth and the community". Angst is to "be thrown
upon yourself", disconnected, left to the mercies of a rational, reductionistic
Q. So, being alienated is the problem.
A. An ego that becomes part of the Whole, once
again, isn't an ego anymore. Instead of being a "lonely wolf", it has become
Servant to the Whole. It is the spiritual Path's ultimate goal.
Q. Today, many people feel, that "we
are steering towards nothingness". Soon we will be confronted with it.....Don't we
need urgent advice e.g. guidance in handling this?
A. Heaven, ultimately, proves to be Nothingness.
That's why coming closer to it, creates both ecstasy and fear. It is the reason, why
the monotheisms "play safe". They don't involve themselves in God-Experience.
Instead, they "offer" people an image of God. Essentially, they beat about the
Q. They are the last who can be of
A. Again, only those can be of assistence, who
themselves went through it. I realize to be one of the very few. It creates an immense
sense of commitment. I am truly a "prisoner of the Eternal", something Nietzsche
called "the inner dictator". The miracle: my inner freedom is unsurpassible!
Q. Is this the Turning Point, the reason why
New Teachers are needed nowadays?
A. These days, the real reason is (wo)mankind facing
the abyss. Without guidance e.g. insight into its true Nature, people will be lost. Their
Angst will be overwhelming. No awareness can stop it.
Q. If so, then this is NOT a project for the
future, I presume.
A. Right. Best proof for that is the Revelation of
the Cosmic Mother. It took place in 1977. Her Message to (wo)mankind is "Don't fear
Nothingness. My Bottomlessness is destroying the ego, not you. You - your True Self - will
be (re)born from my Lap".
Q. A "Deus ex Machina", so to
A. Even a non-believer or atheist will come to
acknowledge that Nothingness as the Ultimate has some logic in it. Doesn't science come to
the same conclusion? I think believers, on the other hand, clinging to all kinds of
(esoteric) delusions, will have much more problems with it. The truth is: we have always
denied it, identifying ourselves with the ego-only, the latter blowing itself further up,
thus destroying the earth, as a consequence of which humanity facing nothingness. You
create, what you want to avoid!
Q. Everything, "just" because we
didn't embrace Nothingness...how deeply paradoxical!
A. The experience of many centuries has shown that
the ego cannot be tamed, neither by religions, nor by political systems. The ego is very
cunning, it always manages to find something to identify with.
Q. It even usurps God (or Enlightenment!)
A. Only Absolute Nothingness can destroy, curb, tame
Q. Is that the Transformation you always
A. Yes, it is. Moreover, the miracle is that
Nothingness has revealed itself as Cosmic Womb, the Universal Mother. It gives a totally
new turn to the situation. Until recently, nothingness was simply the end. Now,
through Her interference we know, that Nothingness is the Mother of both God and the
universe, the Source of ongoing Renewal.
Q. So, what is exactly the difference
between "becoming aware" and "surrender to the Cosmic Mother?"
A. The latter is including the former, but the
former is not including the latter!
Q. Could you explain?
A. Conscious Surrender to the Mother goes to
the core of the problem. Through confrontation with Nothingness the ego is being
destroyed, and with it existential Angst. Through death of the ego your True Self -
awareness - is born. Because She is universal, everybody has entrance to Her, everything
through no-effort. The result is gratefulness as the basic attitude of life. It leads to
spontaneous commitment to the problems of (wo)mankind.
Q. To become aware on the other
A. ......doesn't go to the core of the problem, is
based on self-effort, the ego (most often) is neither broken down nor being integrated. It
remains (underground). The approach is accessible only for a "happy" few,
existential Angst does not dissolve, while the real danger is, that eventually everything
proves to be driven by ego-ambition....
Q. Another question. What confuses me is,
that even eco-spiritual dedicated teachers always talk about "Earth-Mother" or
"Mother-Earth", never about Cosmic Mother.
A. It is the old patriarchal dichotomy between
"Heaven" which is God, Light, male and superior and the Earth, which is Dark,
"chtonic", female and inferior. It maintains the superiority of "God"
over the Eternal Feminine. You find it back in all "great" Religions: God over
Sophia, Brahma over Devi ("shakti") etc.
Q. Oh, really? The impression is, that the
former are at the forefront of "a new era", honoring the Divine Feminine.
A. At a first look it gives a sympatethic
impression, through going to the bottom of it ("zu Ende denken"), it appears to
be not only dualistic, but also not according to Reality.
Q. Totally intrigueing.
A. It comes down to this: who is creating whom? Is
the Mother the superior principle or is she still secondary to the (male) "God?"
The Reality is: the world is not "created" by "God", but by the
Universal Mother. She is giving birth to both God and the universe, including
"Mother-Earth". The Cosmic Hierarchy puts patriarchal thinking totally
Q. Are you not depriving the ecological
movement of a powerful concept. Like Gaia as a living organism?
A. That is an idea, which has value in its own
right. If it is put in the right context, then, obviously, it serves ecological thinking
and action. The real empowerment emerges, when you accept, that the Origin is a Cosmic
Womb, which is giving birth to the Divine (Her LightBody, first emanation) and the
universe (Her Material Body, second emanation). In Reality, "Mother Earth" is
the "Granddaughter" of the Cosmic Mother.
Q The Cosmic Mother being the Ruling
Principle of God and the universe.
A. You grasp it. It is the revolution that
makes everything new, a wisdom that existed before masculine, dualistic thinking took
over. In ancient times the Great Mother, later symbolized by the Grail.... included
everything without exception. Her Darkness wasn't that of the earth, but of the Eternal
Night. It is in the Bottomlessness of Darkness, that ongoing Regeneration is taking place.
Q. Through "birth and death".
A. Indeed, death of everything old, sick, rotten,
evil, ugly and (re)birth of everything new, healthy, fresh, good and beautiful. In Her
"Lap" the ego "dies", while your True Self is born. Your existential
Angst has disappeared forever. It is the Triumph of Life, the ultimate Liberation.
Q. I hope, I understand!
A. An ego that continuously returns to its Origin
(Emptiness) is preventing itself from blowing up. It keeps its balance with the Whole. It
will therefore never become the destructive force of today. Both Cosmos and human society
continue to resonate with each other. The ego thus preventing itself from causing a
Q. I must admit, this exceeds every current
A. Once you know the Essence of Life, you start
cooperating with it (Her). The Mother makes it easy for you, for She is Eternally
Trustful. In practice, you continuously give your ego back to Her. Her "reward":
ongoing birth of your inner Light, the Divine in you.
Q. You have attained....
A. Contrary to spiritual Paths, based on
self-effort, the Inner Light is a gift. It is the Grace of the Cosmic Mother, Who bestowed
this upon you. Your response is that of gratefulness. In sharp contrast to the outcome of
self-effort. Even in case of Enlightenment, the underlying drive (has been) is ambition.
Sooner or later the ego comes back, trying to use your Realization for its own purposes.
Q. Not the result counts, but the Way is
determining the outcome...
A. Not only that. If Enlightenment is the goal, you
not only will have a life-long fight with the ego, but - despite your inclusive
Consciousness - have not realized your full human potential. You should not only include
life, but life should also include you. With other words: after Realization you still have
Q. Your body-mind is part of the
whole, which itself is part of the Whole, which is born from Nothingness....
A. You have learned fastly (laughing)! Indeed,
your body-mind is interconnected with all other forms (of energy). Through the body you
are connected to the "horizontal" dimension of life. Life is not just watching,
but also feeling*. Goal is to unify the vertical and horizontal dimensions. It means that
on the level of energy (feeling) you also should restore wholeness.
* My "Living Zen School", founded
in 1981 was based on "feeling awareness".
Q. The outcome?
A. Therefore, the ultimate act of spiritual
Realization is one of humility, you go back "to the marketplace", living a
"common" life, sharing the suffering of others, at the same time becoming a
hopeful, a shining example to your community, spreading wisdom and kindness, wholeness and
strength among the people.....
Q. I have rarely heard one of my teachers
talking about this last consequence of the Path.
A. What you often see is, that their ego's
refuse to make this step. It doesn't want to "step down". They prefer to remain
on their "higher level" and "share compassion" from there. It is still
based on undervalueing e.g. depreciation of physical life.....
Q. Whaw, that will hurt.
A. Dutch language has a beautiful word:
"Vol-Ledigheid". It means a state of Mind, where Emptiness and Fullness are two
sides of the same coin. To become whole is to establish integration on all levels of
existence, not only on one. I call this "Existential Consciousness". Once your
True Self is born, you become part of "Heaven, earth and the (new) community",
Q. Like you have emphasized in your
website on quite a few places.
A. The Quest for the Grail is the Quest for the
Mother. She invites us to develop our Parzival Mind. This Mind is all-inclusive, embracing
both Heaven and Earth equally. If it helps you, that I take the initiative, like I have
already done, all the better. Let's take delight in the Mother, each other and the nature
around us, to the benefit of all and everything. You won't be disappointed.
Enough for today?
Q. Yes, and thanks very, very much!
A. It's Nothing (....).
JAI MATA DI!
(May the Mother prevail)